The Government's decision to proceed with establishing a new medical school at the University of Waikato is not, at its core, a decision about health policy.
Who says that the Trump and the Republicans are the only political party that is bent! This stinks and good on Labour for declining the idea, despite a well-placed lobbyist. Yet another example that people who have been close to politics should have a long period before they can operate as lobbyists. Well done, Bryce, I hope your analysis gets decent coverage.
Yes Garry I agree! And since the population of New Zealand equals the population of any good size city in other parts of the world, I have never been able to understand why we needed to me schools not to mention three! Also a serious consideration should be the need to pay graduated. Doctors sufficient money to enable them to stay in this country! Why should we set ourselves up as a moderately priced training school for Doctors? The present government is proving itself to be deeply untrustworthy and morally corrupt.
A further concern Luxon said on the news that they were hoping "philanthropist " would support this. He apparently has some in mind. So called philanthropist who get recognition for so called generosity. I suggest it too comes with a price take and is possibly more self-serving than philanthropic.
Spot on analysis. The most obviously and openly flawed, if not corrupt, process, and few seem to care. If you compare it with faux outrage over the Cook Strait ferries budget, its hypocrisy. Pretty worrying that we mirror American pork barrel politics this closely, so quickly and easily.
And the elephant in the room is that so many of our doctors head off overseas and stay there as soon as they've got enough experience: better pay, better conditions. I believe the problem is one of retention, not supply.
Outstanding analysis, Bryce. Neil Quigley has only one idea. His view was formed when he was at Victoria that to be economically viable in NZ a university must have at least one professional school: engineering or medicine. He tried to create an engineering school at Vic before he moved to Waikato, and also floated his medical school idea. On moving to Waikato he has done much to strengthen the engineering school and, as you describe, worked hard to get the third medical school off the ground.
I am offended by the casual cronyism and corruption as much as by the waste of taxpayers’ money.
If your intention is to create more medical graduates, just expand the existing medical schools. But Quigley’s aim is different. He wants a legacy project that will shore up the financial position of the university he is VC of. That is not in New Zealand’s best interests, but it is in his.
Its coming ,getting closer just look overseas ordinary people have had enough. Corruption ,treachours leadership, actual Treason . requires hanging not discusion!! all the evidence is there and has been for some time NZ will not improve until we do
Where I have my suspicions is that setting up a new medical school that is solidly on-side with the current Government is more about avoiding either the expansion of medical schools with leftist racist ideologies, particularly Otago, or else first engaging in politically very messy, necessary confrontation, to first clean out the toxic ideologists from those schools. In other words a rather extreme, costly form of "restructure" (often inappropriately) used as a method of changing cultures.
AT the RNZCGP conference pre-election Shane Reti claimed that it would be easier to get accreditation for a new medical school than for the existing medical schools to be accredited for increased numbers. Until they have recruited staff and set up a curriculum they cannot know how long it would take to be accredited
One thing not really covered in the reporting so far is the increasing importance of Waikato and the Bay of Plenty in our economy. Hamilton city is closing on Wellington City in population. Add on Cambridge and Ngaruawahia- effectively suburbs- and you have 200,000 plus people. A third medical school is a good sell in these two regions. Also politically Hamilton is a swing city- it's two MPs are National reflecting the change of government at the last election.
A few years ago when National was having trouble deciding on its leader Simon Bridges (MP for Tauranga with King Country origins) was rolled by Tod Muller (MP for Bay of Plenty and Waikato by origin) and then Judith Collins Auckland MP but Matamata raised. This area is flexing its political and financial muscles.
I for one am glad this is going ahead. As Luke Malpass observed in today's Post, Australia has 23 medical schools for a population of 25 million: at that ratio, we should be starting our fifth, not our third. One startling point he made is that a medical student education at Otago or Auckland is 25% more expensive than at an Australian medical school. Another major point is that this is a graduate level entry school, with shorter time for medical studies, just the same as in the US. I know several doctors who have constantly said to me at least one of their years could have been cut out. We need another model to challenge the one we've got - and medical schools too large are apparently not the best model.
I think the main 'shock, horror' is that Otago and Auckland universities have held this up by their own strenuous lobbying to protect their cushy position in this market, like two supermarket groups trying to keep out competitors. With at least half our population in Hamilton or north of it, access nearby their homes for students, a great cost saver for them, makes a great deal of sense.
Who says that the Trump and the Republicans are the only political party that is bent! This stinks and good on Labour for declining the idea, despite a well-placed lobbyist. Yet another example that people who have been close to politics should have a long period before they can operate as lobbyists. Well done, Bryce, I hope your analysis gets decent coverage.
Yes Garry I agree! And since the population of New Zealand equals the population of any good size city in other parts of the world, I have never been able to understand why we needed to me schools not to mention three! Also a serious consideration should be the need to pay graduated. Doctors sufficient money to enable them to stay in this country! Why should we set ourselves up as a moderately priced training school for Doctors? The present government is proving itself to be deeply untrustworthy and morally corrupt.
A further concern Luxon said on the news that they were hoping "philanthropist " would support this. He apparently has some in mind. So called philanthropist who get recognition for so called generosity. I suggest it too comes with a price take and is possibly more self-serving than philanthropic.
Spot on analysis. The most obviously and openly flawed, if not corrupt, process, and few seem to care. If you compare it with faux outrage over the Cook Strait ferries budget, its hypocrisy. Pretty worrying that we mirror American pork barrel politics this closely, so quickly and easily.
And the elephant in the room is that so many of our doctors head off overseas and stay there as soon as they've got enough experience: better pay, better conditions. I believe the problem is one of retention, not supply.
Outstanding analysis, Bryce. Neil Quigley has only one idea. His view was formed when he was at Victoria that to be economically viable in NZ a university must have at least one professional school: engineering or medicine. He tried to create an engineering school at Vic before he moved to Waikato, and also floated his medical school idea. On moving to Waikato he has done much to strengthen the engineering school and, as you describe, worked hard to get the third medical school off the ground.
I am offended by the casual cronyism and corruption as much as by the waste of taxpayers’ money.
If your intention is to create more medical graduates, just expand the existing medical schools. But Quigley’s aim is different. He wants a legacy project that will shore up the financial position of the university he is VC of. That is not in New Zealand’s best interests, but it is in his.
Heaps of work again Bryce
Its coming ,getting closer just look overseas ordinary people have had enough. Corruption ,treachours leadership, actual Treason . requires hanging not discusion!! all the evidence is there and has been for some time NZ will not improve until we do
Where I have my suspicions is that setting up a new medical school that is solidly on-side with the current Government is more about avoiding either the expansion of medical schools with leftist racist ideologies, particularly Otago, or else first engaging in politically very messy, necessary confrontation, to first clean out the toxic ideologists from those schools. In other words a rather extreme, costly form of "restructure" (often inappropriately) used as a method of changing cultures.
Factual correction. The NZMA no longer exists.
AT the RNZCGP conference pre-election Shane Reti claimed that it would be easier to get accreditation for a new medical school than for the existing medical schools to be accredited for increased numbers. Until they have recruited staff and set up a curriculum they cannot know how long it would take to be accredited
OMG 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ Whst a brilliantly researched article!!! Thank you. How do we get this out to the public before the election ?
One thing not really covered in the reporting so far is the increasing importance of Waikato and the Bay of Plenty in our economy. Hamilton city is closing on Wellington City in population. Add on Cambridge and Ngaruawahia- effectively suburbs- and you have 200,000 plus people. A third medical school is a good sell in these two regions. Also politically Hamilton is a swing city- it's two MPs are National reflecting the change of government at the last election.
A few years ago when National was having trouble deciding on its leader Simon Bridges (MP for Tauranga with King Country origins) was rolled by Tod Muller (MP for Bay of Plenty and Waikato by origin) and then Judith Collins Auckland MP but Matamata raised. This area is flexing its political and financial muscles.
I for one am glad this is going ahead. As Luke Malpass observed in today's Post, Australia has 23 medical schools for a population of 25 million: at that ratio, we should be starting our fifth, not our third. One startling point he made is that a medical student education at Otago or Auckland is 25% more expensive than at an Australian medical school. Another major point is that this is a graduate level entry school, with shorter time for medical studies, just the same as in the US. I know several doctors who have constantly said to me at least one of their years could have been cut out. We need another model to challenge the one we've got - and medical schools too large are apparently not the best model.
I think the main 'shock, horror' is that Otago and Auckland universities have held this up by their own strenuous lobbying to protect their cushy position in this market, like two supermarket groups trying to keep out competitors. With at least half our population in Hamilton or north of it, access nearby their homes for students, a great cost saver for them, makes a great deal of sense.