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Chris Trotter's avatar

Well, Brit, that's a fairly big bunch of accusations. Let's get rid of the ones that are just plain wrong first.

I am not in denial over the Covid-19 Vaccine (as a Type 2 Diabetic it has kept me safe) Climate Change, or the action required to mitigate Climate Change's effects. What I am less certain of is whether we in New Zealand can do anything very much to either mitigate or intensify climate change. That power belongs to those who are causing it: China, the USA and India. How you came to believe I was any of these things, I can only put down to a serious misreading of my work.

That I am a foe of Identity Politics is very true, but then so is Noam Chomsky, who is not widely accused of being a follower of Trump/Bannon or the Italian Social Movement! It is extremely easy to mount a case against Id-Pol from a traditional Left perspective - and many have. This is because, objectively, it serves the interests of 21st century capitalism better than just about any other ideological system. So, you might want to re-think your support for those whose primary political impact has been to divide the socialist movement. Social justice has nothing to do with it.

As for my commentary on the NZ news media, I think I'm slightly better placed than you to judge its merits - having been a part of it for the past 40 years.

Never liked Russel Brand, but I'm honoured to be compared to Matt Taibbi, whose only sin in the eyes of people like yourself, Brit, is to call out the sins of the Left as well as the Right. The duty of all journalists who take their profession seriously IMHO.

As for being called a neo-fascist, well, you'd only get to do that once to my face, comrade.

I do, however, like your art.

Richard Santillan's avatar

I am glad that you have addressed some of my concerns. I’ve been prodding you for months on Facebook to get a response. I’ve been trying to understand your new turn against progressive politicians in NZ. Forgive me for the long reply. It can’t be answered in short form.

First of all, my sincerest apologies! You are of course not “neo-fascist”. I have said that you may have gone “something like neo-fascism” on us. I was simply finding some common ground.... too much for comfort imho. But I certainly believe that your heart is in the right place.

Neo-fascism in Europe and the USA has taken its focus away from economics and now rails against identity politics. But so have you...in particular by relentlessly attacking the Greens’ identity politics while ignoring their progressive economic and labour politics. I have been a member of the Greens for 15 years. Like many out of the Alliance party, I migrated there a long time ago. Believe me, identity politics is a minor part of our agenda (that I and others don’t always agree with). It never deserved so much attention, but it has been an effective weapon by the far right.

Chomsky co-wrote “Liberating Theory” describing the need for addressing identity politics 50 years ago. He recently said that “the greatest, most powerful form of identity politics is white supremacy. That outweighs all the others combined in what is called “identity politics” He continues, ”...race, gender, sexual orientation. These are all important, but they shouldn’t come at the expense of fighting the class war, protecting and participating with the people who are getting it in the neck under the neoliberal regime. The left can and should do it all”. The Greens do (as does Te Pāti Māori) – imperfectly and the best that they can under a capitalist parliamentary system.

“Co-governance” was used as a propaganda dog whistle and a smoke screen for racism by the right wing. As far as I can tell, it only referred to Three Waters, a reasonable method of cleaning our worsening water infrastructure which the media failed to let Labour explain. Meanwhile, all kinds of ridiculous conspiracy theories arose in the void. Here co-governance only meant the ability to advise, not veto power over water-related policy. (Dual language signs are not co-governance as some have suggested. Signs don’t take part in legislation. They were an effort to treat our native population with respect and practised in many parts of the world from Spain to Wales.) Nevertheless a reading of your essay David Parker Rejects Co-Governance changed my mind. Environment Minister David Parker “rejected the inclusion of co-governance provisions in his Natural & Built Environments Bill”. Now it is clearer. My fault. It was indeed more than 3 Waters.

Neo-fascism in Europe and the USA had been virulently anti-mandate. In most cases they have been anti-vaccine as well -the two are closely tied and often interchangeable- part of the same basket of goods. Bannon and Trump were vaccinated but they rallied their stormtroopers against the vaccine, and later against mandates. . . I did a search and I do now see that you wrote regarding the Parliament protest crowd that “They have stigmatized themselves.” Excellent. I may have misread what I thought was a tacit support of the anti-mandate and Vaccine protests in essays such as the “Angry Majority” and your support of anti-mandate crusader Matt Taibbi. Either way, we had the lowest deaths per capita in the developed world due to the government’s mostly excellent, but flawed Covid response. Life is more important than a temporary lack of freedom and the ability to go to cafes in my opinion. And after reading a number of your essays today, I think that in the end, you agree as well. sorry.

I do however disagree on climate change. Many on the on far right are now rallying the public to give up mitigating intensified climate change (especially regarding Dutch farmers). People in the USA and India are in fact fighting against greenhouse emissions. We, who have greenhouse emissions on par per capita with the USA are also fighting against it. It will take a larger more unified struggle to slow it down, not the usual cry from the NZ right-wing (and you) that our small size excuses us from action any more than driving a small car excuses one from a hit-and-run crime. As Shaw so eloquently said small cities the population size of NZ everywhere are rallying together to fight Climate change. Then why are we exempt?

I have been watching with horror some on the left adopting the language of the far right from Russel Brand to former Occupy Wall Street activist Tim Pool. I am well versed in the origins of fascism that arose from a combination of leftwing ideology (Mussolini as editor of the Italian socialist paper Avanti) that soon embraced ultra-nationalism. As a populist Mussolini changed policy according to the needs of power empowering the working class while giving tax cuts to the rich. The fascists attacked not only the communists but also identity politics – women who were now encouraged to stay and home and produce babies... and later in the 30’s against African and Jewish people. History rhymes.

Matt Taibbi, a Substack millionaire, is a mixed bag. He attacked the “vaccine aristocrats” who shame the unvaccinated, while promoting the baseless conspiracy theory on Ivermectin. He defends Tucker Carlson. He is more worried about NPR (equal to our RNZ) than Fox which he spends far more time on these days. Your seeming wholesale support of him and his ideals did lead me to believe that you shared these beliefs.

There is so much more to write about... particularly your comfotable chats with the right-wing shock jock Sean Plunket. some excellent, many not so much.

I need to end now. Thanks for the compliment on my art.

You are often fantastic on economic issues and your books are classics. But I do sense a slippery slope.

John Welsh's avatar

"Neo-fascism"?... ugh! My sympathies. It's just so tiresome.

PJ's avatar

Excellent, thank you for the bigger context. Having been a Labour voter all of my (very long) life, I absolutely cannot bring myself to vote for what I see as a betrayal of the original Labour values.

Tony Pomfret's avatar

I too feel betrayed and have done so since neo-liberalism took center stage. Why is it so abhorrent to the current parties to advocate for reigning in the inequality that causes such damage to the majority so that the minority can maximise their wealth?

John Welsh's avatar

You might be interested in the angle of attack in the TransAtlantic substack, given what you wrote here. Might be worth having a peek at this similar post over there to whet your whistle, and if you like it you can have a browse through some of the other offerings...

"Identity Politics and the Seeds of the Lost Left" – https://thetransatlantic.substack.com/p/identity-politics-and-the-seeds-of

John Welsh's avatar

Given what you wrote here, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about this not dissimilar piece in the TransAtlantic substack. It's sort of coming from the same angle of attack…

"Identity Politics and the Seeds of the Lost Left" – https://thetransatlantic.substack.com/p/identity-politics-and-the-seeds-of

KATHAZEL's avatar

Well written analysis. Unfortunately no one in Labour is listening and I think the election results will come as a shocking surprise. I asked Labour supporters in a recent blog why they were failing at the polls and they could not respond. The lack of self awareness in regards to their alienated voter base is quite astonishing.

Edward HITCHCOCK's avatar

Well said. Nobody left advocating for the economic needs of the masses. Instead identity politics are all important and dissent is forbidden.

Elizabeth Rowe's avatar

The best exposition of our current tragedy that I have read.

John Welsh's avatar

While I'm sure it's not as good an exposition as Chris' post, you might get something out of this one too…

"Identity Politics and the Seeds of the Lost Left" – https://thetransatlantic.substack.com/p/identity-politics-and-the-seeds-of

koreakiwi's avatar

An excellent piece Chris!

John Welsh's avatar

If you liked this piece, then you might also get something from this one…

"Identity Politics and the Seeds of the Lost Left" – https://thetransatlantic.substack.com/p/identity-politics-and-the-seeds-of

Richard Santillan's avatar

There is no longer a credible left-wing journalist here! Anit-Mandate (vaccine denial)? Climate change action denial. An obsession with “identity politics” and wokeness (social justice). Cozying up with Sean Plunket on an astoundingly diatribes on so called “left leaning media”. Attacking the viable left at every chance. These are all hallmarks of Trump/Bannon, and the Italian Social Movement. Once the shining light of the left. Like Russel Brand or Matt Taibbi (now a darling of FOX News) the "leftist" perhaps Trotter has gone something like neo fascist on us? I hope not.

Peter Winsley's avatar

A master piece of deep thinking and great writing.

Mark Heatherbell's avatar

An eloquent summary of the pivotal politics that has got us to this point. Hopefully we can just vote all the problems away.

Nigel C's avatar

Beautifully written.

John Hurley's avatar

I went to visit an uncle a few days ago. My wife told him (catching up) that until a year ago she was working in the laundry of an old person's home: "I worked 8 hours and only had one 10 minute break".

A Chinese driver quit his job. He rang his boss to say he couldn't bring the group back from a restaurant as he was going to Milford next morning and it was against NZ law. His employer had to fly a driver down from Chch. I can see both sides of these examples, but ultimately, (as far as the left are concerned), I blame identity politics.

Identity politics disrupts the formations that define the people and the concept of the people evolved to thwart incursion by the neighbors.

Ask yourself why Chris Bishop can claim that growth in our cities is necessary to improve productivity?

John Hurley's avatar

Another example is the rebranding of apartment as a home. A home is something where a kid can go outside and do wheelies on a trike.

I was looking through a list of properties owned by parliamentarians: I note that Julie-Anne Genter has a home in Wellington, whereas Chloe has an apartment in Auckland Central.

"Culture war debates involve the symbols that help define society and political culture. For example, altering language (both the specific words used and what language is considered acceptable) or how different individuals, groups and ideas are represented (either how often or how positive)."

https://jamesbreckwoldt.substack.com/p/who-cares-about-the-culture-war

John Welsh's avatar

I cannot but broadly identify ;) with the argument in your article. Fine job. You might get something out of this little piece of mine in The TransAtlantic substack. Have a peek, when you get a mo. Any thoughts or comments are always welcome....

https://thetransatlantic.substack.com/p/identity-politics-and-the-seeds-of

Richard Santillan's avatar

I am glad that you have addressed some of my concerns. I’ve been prodding you for months on Facebook to get a response. I’ve been trying to understand your new turn against progressive politicians in NZ. Forgive me for the long reply. It can’t be answered in short form.

First of all, my sincerest apologies! You are of course not “neo-fascist”. I have said that you may have gone “something like neo-fascism” on us. I was simply finding some common ground, perhaps spuriously. I certainly believe that your heart is in the right place.

Neo-fascism in Europe and the USA has taken its focus away from economics and now rails against identity politics. But so have you...in particular by relentlessly attacking the Greens’ identity politics while ignoring their progressive economic and labour politics. I have been a member of the Greens for 15 years, like many out of the Alliance party. Believe me, identity politics is a minor part of our agenda (that I and others don’t always agree with). It never deserved so much attention, but it has been an effective weapon by the far right.

Chomsky co-wrote “Liberating Theory” describing the need for addressing identity politics 50 years ago. He recently said that “the greatest, most powerful form of identity politics is white supremacy. That outweighs all the others combined in what is called “identity politics” He continues, ”...race, gender, sexual orientation. These are all important, but they shouldn’t come at the expense of fighting the class war, protecting and participating with the people who are getting it in the neck under the neoliberal regime. The left can and should do it all”. The Greens do (as does Te Pāti Māori) – imperfectly and the best that they can under a capitalist parliamentary system.

“Co-governance” was used as a propaganda dog whistle and a smoke screen for racism by the right wing. As far as I can tell, it only referred to Three Waters, a reasonable method of cleaning our worsening water infrastructure which the media failed to let Labour explain. Meanwhile, all kinds of ridiculous conspiracy theories arose in the void. Here co-governance only meant the ability to advise, not veto power over water-related policy. (Dual language signs are not co-governance as some have suggested. Signs don’t take part in legislation. They were an effort to treat our native population with respect and practised in many parts of the world from Spain to Wales.) Nevertheless a reading of your essay David Parker Rejects Co-Governance changed my mind. Environment Minister David Parker “rejected the inclusion of co-governance provisions in his Natural & Built Environments Bill”. Now it is clearer. My fault. It was indeed more than 3 Waters.

Neo-fascism in Europe and the USA had been virulently anti-mandate. In most cases they have been anti-vaccine as well -the two are closely tied and often interchangeable- part of the same basket of goods. Bannon and Trump were vaccinated but they rallied their stormtroopers against the vaccine, and later against mandates. . . I did a search and I do now see that you wrote regarding the Parliament protest crowd that “They have stigmatized themselves.” Excellent. I may have misread what I thought was a tacit support of the anti-mandate and Vaccine protests in essays such as the “Angry Majority” and your support of anti-mandate crusader Matt Taibbi. Either way, we had the lowest deaths per capita in the developed world due to the government’s mostly excellent, but flawed Covid response. Life is more important than a temporary lack of freedom and the ability to go to cafes in my opinion. And after reading a number of your essays today, I think that in the end, you agree as well. sorry.

I do however disagree on climate change. Many on the on far right are now rallying the public to give up mitigating intensified climate change (especially regarding Dutch farmers). People in the USA and India are in fact fighting against greenhouse emissions. We, who have greenhouse emissions on par per capita with the USA are also fighting against it. It will take a larger more unified struggle to slow it down, not the usual cry from the NZ right-wing (and you) that our small size excuses us from action any more than driving a small car excuses one from a hit-and-run crime. As Shaw so eloquently said small cities the population size of NZ everywhere are rallying together to fight Climate change. Then why are we exempt?

I have been watching with horror some on the left adopting the language of the far right from Russel Brand to former Occupy Wall Street activist Tim Pool. I am well versed in the origins of fascism that arose from a combination of leftwing ideology (Mussolini as editor of the Italian socialist paper Avanti) that soon embraced ultra-nationalism. As a populist Mussolini changed policy according to the needs of power empowering the working class while giving tax cuts to the rich. The fascists attacked not only the communists but also identity politics – women who were now encouraged to stay and home and produce babies... and later in the 30’s against African and Jewish people. History rhymes.

Matt Taibbi, a Substack millionaire, is a mixed bag. He attacked the “vaccine aristocrats” who shame the unvaccinated, while promoting the baseless conspiracy theory on Ivermectin. He defends Tucker Carlson. He is more worried about NPR (equal to our RNZ) than Fox which he spends far more time on these days. Thus, your wholesale support of him did lead me to believe that you shared these beliefs.

There is so much more to write about... particularly your chats with the right-wing shock jock Sean Plunket. some excellent, others not. I need to end now. Thanks for the compliment on my art.

You are often fantastic on economic issues and your books are classics. But I do sense a slippery slope.

K. Renik's avatar

> Like the Greens, Professional-Managerial Labour is wedded to “appropriate” decision-making: that is to say – decisions made by itself.

I disagree with this bit. Labour or Green politicians are not deciding what is appropriate, that is formed in US university campuses.

Also, while it is very far from ideal, I think TOP is the closest to walking in the path of the old left parties.

John Welsh's avatar

I'd be interested in what you think of this…

"Identity Politics and the Seeds of the Lost Left" – https://thetransatlantic.substack.com/p/identity-politics-and-the-seeds-of